Glad to see you guys are still interested in what we're up to! Here's a quick rundown of what's been going on with this project.
Back in October, about a week after I posted that we were back in business blog-wise, I went to log in and I got an error message saying that my account had been temporarily suspended, again. I sent Google a cease-and-desist email which was followed by a canned response on their end to the effect of "we're reviewing your blog as it has been cited repeatedly for copyright infringement." So I followed up with the info regarding their previous block and the legal threats that they faced. Nothing.
I checked up again on New Year's Day to see if I could get back in, but I was still blocked. So I said "screw it" and went back to work on our latest endeavor (more on that soon). Today I try to log in and boom- here I am. I'm thinking about moving the content of this blog to a personal site or something to keep this from happening again.
If any of you Godfather fans were lucky enough to experience the Columbus Ohio screenings of Godfather II in 70mm last year- you're welcome! I was actually expecting more of a turnout for such an unprecedented experience, but what the hell, we were up against Age of Ultron and other summer fare. I was contacted by an affiliate of the Gateway Cinema who had a 90% complete 70mm copy of Part II and was looking to complete the reels. I was able to provide about 3% more footage from my own 70mm clips. The remaining 7% of footage was from my existing 35mm print reels which were blown up to 70mm by the awesome crew at the Wexner Center for Performing Arts at OSU.
The first showing attracted all of 12 patrons. The second was a little better at 38. I had to fly back home but I'm told throughout the rest of the week the attendance picked up a bit. I know the tickets were a bit high at 18.00, but how much does the typical IMAX ticket cost? And you're getting to see possibly the greatest film of all time in an aspect ratio that you'll never see replicated again at home or in any other theatrical screening, in giant 70mm FILM on a Cinemascope screen? Geez, and I thought I was jaded.
Anyway....
Yes, we're aware of the HBO screening. I have a copy of it and am in the process of reviewing it. Any scenes or trims that aren't in our present cut will of course end up in the final project. Aside from the 70mm project that ate up most of my time last year, I've also been helping out on the Star Wars restoration which you can read about here.
The main bugs that have been slowing down the Godfather project have been in the audio department. I'm not a soundman so I don't have much input in that area, and the team member that was remixing everything into Headphone X leads a pretty busy life and isn't hitting any deadlines, so for that I apologize.
More updates to come...
Welcome back!
ReplyDeleteWhat scenes will be added in your project version ? (compared to Hal9000's version)
DeleteThat's cool Steve about your DVD episodic fashion. I wonder if the "Master Print" of the godfather saga includes EVERYTHING in HD. Like everything. Every trim, every frame. Maybe one day it will leak somewhere. Lol.
ReplyDeleteThat would be nice. Of course, what we'd actually get if the Master Print ever leaked would probably be more akin to the extant workprint of Apocalypse Now: hours and hours of hideous looking multigenerational VHS dubs encoded at VCD quality. Sighhhhh.
DeleteAt this point I would take the master print if it was super8, LOL. I know there are the "lost" scenes like Michael killing Fabrizio, but were any of the scenes from the hour and a half after Fredo is killed actually...filmed? (besides the little snippets from the credits). What about the older deniro stuff from the 30's?
DeleteI wish I had the necessary skills because someday I would love to have the extended cuts or the epic on nice blu-rays with custom artwork and nice little booklets detailing all the extra footage ala the lord of the rings extended editions.
Hi Dan-
DeleteThere are some things we know were filmed. Of the hour and a half after Michael kills Fredo, approximately 30% of that act was shot. Basically everything that could be shot on existing sets like the footage that wound up in the opening credits of Part III and the TV edits were filmed. Most of what was missing was the Miami sequences, where Michael helps to posit a Kennedy-like Senator into the Presidency. The Presidential candidate still had yet to be cast and I believe by this time Coppola was starting to play with the parallel narrative idea and felt that it probably wasn't worth finishing up that storyline.
(What's funny to me is that a lot of the criticism of Part III stems from the seemingly infinite amount of money Michael has accumulated over the years. Most don't realize that he had that sort of wealth by the end of Part II. The final shot, where we see Michael brooding over his "kingdom", doesn't tell you the full story. Michael is one of the richest, most powerful men in the world. He's got a President in his pocket- you can even say that the President plays second fiddle to the Godfather. He's immune from prosecution for his crimes. His enemies are all dead, and no other syndicate would even attempt to touch him now. There's literally nowhere else to go- he's climbed the highest mountain. Without that particular storyline in place anymore, the ending is more ambiguous. Is he mourning his brother, or is he reminiscing about the "good times" (re: the flashback sequence.) It works either way in my eyes, but make no mistake, he's one of the wealthiest men in the world in that scene.)
The De Niro stuff from the other narrative was by all accounts "in the can". The way it plays out, Vito is much closer to his Part I persona in that he's portlier, and speaks in fluent English with very little Italian slipping through. The "Chicago Syndicate" (unnamed, though clearly Al Capone's men) send some thugs over to assassinate Vito. Clemenza gets word of it and hires a young Luca Brazi to extinguish the would-be assassins. It turns out the "Capone" figure is working with a local Irish gang and is secretly setting up button men all over the city, which culminates in a shootout on Fifth Avenue during a parade. Vito is hit but survives.
The ending sequence for this narrative was much like the Christening scene in Part I. As Vito calls a truce among the heads of the Five Families, his men are all over the country killing big shot Mafiosos. At the end of the meeting, the other four Heads pledge loyalty to Corleone, not realizing that at that very minute the most powerful Mafia chiefs have all been obliterated and Corleone reigns supreme.
From what I understand, this was all finished and just needed the routine post-production magic touch. I realize why it was left out of any subsequent cut as it is basically its own movie.
I still think that George Lucas had it right when he told FFC that he had two separate movies- either drop one narrative or release a prequel followed by a sequel. If any of this stuff ever sees the light of day, they could do just that.
Thank you for the detailed response. It's very interesting trying to imagine what these movies would be like with this footage added in; it really was another film. The fact that we would have actually seen the first attempt on Vito's life makes the deleted scene more meaningful when Michael asks Sonny how their mother is taking it (vito being gunned down by Sollozzo's thugs) and Sonny responds that "she's been through it before."
DeleteAlso, I meant to add that our Trilogy will have a detailed booklet, disc labels, DVD/Blu Ray covers in different configurations, and pretty much everything you would want in a "real" box set. It'll all be in PDF form that you can print out or just read once and delete :)
ReplyDeleteThat's good to hear, I can't wait to have it someday. You guys really are doing such a great thing for the community...the preservation of these films even alternate takes and deleted material is so important to our cultural heritage. The reading material here alone is fascinating. This project truly should be getting as much publicity as the despecialized star wars project. Thank you.
Delete@Godfather Museum: What Dan said. And clearly the TeamNegative1 Star Wars project as well has been garnering MUCH media these days. Kudos to the group and it's good to know that someone with obvious respect for quality is working on both of these projects. My only suggestion for you (given the amount of difficulties you've had recently with Google) would be to follow your gut as you mentioned above and transition somewhere they can't impede further. We, the dedicated, will follow - of that you can be sure ;)
DeleteThank you Steve! Yes, the SW project is getting a good amount of attention. When I jumped on board last year it felt like I was "cheating" on the Godfather project... but my role over at TN1 is pretty much complete now so I'm 100% focused on the Godfather again. Now I just have to rope in my teammates and knuckle down and get back to work.
DeletePlease can you remind us the differences between your project and Hal9000's version ? (length,scenes, format, color,sound....). I'm very interested.
DeleteI don't know as I've never seen Hal9000's version. Our trailer is right here and it spells it out pretty well IMO: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UIDPCSHe0d4
DeleteBasically every single frame of footage that has ever been released, no matter how seemingly insignificant, is presented in chronological order.
Since you mentioned your part of TN1 and if you don't mind me asking, What is it that really happened on originaltrilogy.com that got you guys banned and whose fault was it exactly?
ReplyDeletehttp://originaltrilogy.com/announcement/Team-Negative1/id/48366
I've been told a couple of different things and I'm not sure what to believe.
ReplyDeleteLet me precede by stating my extent of the involvement in that project, in that I helped source some film elements for the project consisting of 8, 16 and 35 mm clips (not full prints) for comparison and scanning. I put up no money toward anything, but connected various members together who DID share cash and resources.
From what I understand, someone who donated some film elements felt that they were the "owner" of said material and demanded compensation after it was agreed that this was a non-profit venture and said material had been donated.
It boiled down to "I paid to have this sourced and scanned and you're just going to USE it and not pay me anything for my time and out-of-pocket expenses?" Well, yeah. You were aware of that going in and didn't have any problem with it last year.
What happened next I'm not so sure about, but it got pretty heated and the word "unethical" was thrown around enough and TNO got banned. Which isn't much of a surprise, as I was banned years ago just for refusing to "skirt around" the fact that I was using television broadcast footage in the Godfather project as it "wasn't commercially released, therefore illegal" and other such nonsense.
Originaltrilogy.com has deluded itself into thinking that what they do is completely legal so long as they skirt certain issues. It's all one big grey area, and you can't pick and choose which parts of fanediting/preservation you want to be legal. In my opinion, some of the Admin at that site had some bones to pick with some -1 Members over triviality, and they used this as an excuse to clear them from the site.
From what I understand, OT.Com is attempting to use the old "unethical copyright" excuse, stating that since 35mm prints are illegal to own without the studio's permission, then the entire project was illegal since Day One. Which is hilarious, as OT.com garnered so much press and traffic thanks to this project that you would think the realization that they were aiding and abetting piracy would have sunk in sooner.
I'm good friends with a lot of the fine folks over at OT.Com, but their admin and moderators can go sleep with the fishes for what it's worth.
Bravo and well said, sir.
DeleteThank you for your well detailed response. By the way I love the music in your trailer, where can I find it ? (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UIDPCSHe0d4)
DeleteIt's on the Godfather Part II soundtrack.
DeleteYeah, what a shame for Part III. You know what I would of done? Not only would I do the NBC chronological order in 1977, but I would also try and make part III later that year. The saga was in November and I would of done the film in Dec 1977. It would be more in the like of Part II, with flashbacks and present. Michael in the 1960's and Vito in the 1930's. We could see how Sonny would grow up and also how he would find Tom Hagen on the street. Michael being different from everyone. Attempts on Vito's life.
ReplyDeleteThe actors would be De Niro of course and everybody else from Part II who played Clemenza, Tessio and Genco. Andy Garcia playing young Sonny. Maybe have Lorraine Braco play Mary (Michael's daughter) and Ray Liotta either play young Michael in the 1930's or Anthony. Maybe a young Robin williams playing young tom hagen? Of course it wouldn't hurt to throw in Christopher Walken and Harvey Keitel for some villains.
That cast constitutes literally a walking, living Academy Award.
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteGreat to have you back.
ReplyDeleteI noticed the Sources page is about a year old now and wanted to ask if you've maybe come across any new material since then, besides the HBO broadcast and the alternate "Genco in the hospital" takes from the Japanese VCD.
Any news ?
ReplyDeleteHi! I just discovered this awesome project and i really wanna thank you for this gift from heaven!
ReplyDeleteMay I ask you if you're planning to release the whole thing with language selection, or at least only with english subtitles only?
I'm from Italy and i would be glad to experience the saga in my language to fully enjoy it, but i know it is really a lot of work to put various languages so it is absolutely fine to release it in english only, but i can't understand everything they say only hearing i so I'm asking you if you please could put english subtitles so I can understand it all with no problem.
And if you REALLY wanna put languages, well, please be sure to put the original italian dubbing, not a crappy second one they did for a re-release.
Thank you very much
With admiration and baciamo le mani
Sirio
Hi Godfather Museum team,
ReplyDeleteI've just watched the HBO cut of the Saga and was blown away by its quality. However I'm really curious to get your feedback on this cut and its differences (if any) With the AMC cut. I hope you'll have time to publish a post on it.
Thanks for all your work,
Romi
Hi, you can find many answers here about the AMC and HBO cut:
Deletehttp://godfathermuseum.blogspot.fr/2015/10/google-couldnt-kill-us.html
173 comments so it's better to use search function in your navigator ;-)
Hey Godfather Museum Team, an unrelated note but you should tell your source at Paramount they should dig into the vaults for the loads of deleted footage from "Ferris Bueller's Day Off" and "Planes, Trains & Automobiles". Their respective anniversaries are coming up and extended cuts of those would be awesome, Universal dropped the ball last year by not digging for that 150 minute cut of "The Breakfast Club"
ReplyDeleteNice, except those have nothing to do with what their trying to do here.
ReplyDelete^^^ Hence why I said "an unrelated note"...
ReplyDeleteWhat about english subtitles for Part1&2 ? It would be great for people who want to translate then in their own country languages.
ReplyDeleteFor your next update, can you go into detail on the equipment used to capture each format?
ReplyDeleteThank you for your hard work and phenomenal research in maintaining this website. Your essay exploring the different chronological cuts was invaluable to an article I wrote about HBO's recent extended Godfather. It's also fabulous reading. Keep up the great work and I'll be sure to follow any updates.
ReplyDeleteDo you have a link to your article? I'd be interested in reading it.
DeleteYes I would like to read it as well.
DeleteLovely website...I've enjoyed discovering it and spent quite a bit of time going through the previous posts. Bravo!
ReplyDeleteA couple questions...
1) Have you had time to compare the HBO broadcast of the epic with the AMC HD one of a few years ago? If so, are you planning on writing an article regarding the differences? If so, I'd be very interested in knowing what they are. The Epic (on VHS) is the way I originally experienced The Godfather years ago, so it's actually my preferred way of watching it.
2) I understand what the parameters of your project are (i.e. creating a definitive version w/all the deleted scenes from all available sources), but I'd also be interested in seeing simply a version of the Epic in HD (probably sourced from the HBO broadcast) combined with Godfather III (sourced either from the BD or and HDTV broadcast) and colour corrected to match. Do you have an intention of doing this, or know if such a project exists?
Thanks again for all your work...what a treat discovering your site has been!
@Hal9000 Please ! Update progress !
ReplyDeletewhat happened to hal9000 extended editions for the 2 movies?
ReplyDelete@Hal9000 Please ! Update progress ! ;-)
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDelete@Hal9000 Please ! Update progress !
ReplyDeleteI'm trying to locate the actual house that was used as Don Ciccio's villa in The Godfather Part II. Anybody?
ReplyDeleteErik
ponzo@earthlink.net
@Hal9000 Please ! Update !
ReplyDeleteI am a time traveler, and I have good news and bad news.
ReplyDeleteThe good news is that this project is released.
The bad news is that it is not released until 2024.
Hal's edits are both finished now btw guys, go on fanedit.org and pm him for a copy and he'll send them to you. The newest version uses the hbo footage so there's no censorship and no logo.
ReplyDeleteAre you sure ? Even with Steve's polished version of Santino Jr scene in color ? (with black and white quality)
DeleteI downloaded this new version. Hal_over_9000 is not Hal9000. This new version is good but not in chronological order. Moreover the scene in black and white with Santino Jr has not changed for example.
ReplyDeleteis the gf museum version ever going to be released? i have as much Patience as anyone but after 5 years it is wearing thin.
ReplyDeleteHal_over_9000's godfather v2 (not chronoligical) is good but some modifications in v1 (chronoligical) are missing such as Enzo the Baker's first line of dialog (over the end of Sonny's scene in the parking lot).
ReplyDeletePlease ! Update progress !
ReplyDelete^^^^ Every time with this guy.
ReplyDeletePlease ! Update progress before everyone die ! ^^
ReplyDeleteSome lost 'The Godfather' reels (first 40 minutes) are found a month ago:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.contactmusic.com/the-godfather/news/author-mario-puzo-s-lost-film-reels-from-the-godfather-up-for-auction_5296077
It's not specified if this is 40 minutes of some rough cut or only theatrical, final version.
This comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteHere's why I think that this is not the theatrical version and is indeed a rough cut or first director's cut:
DeleteThere are two 1500 foot reels out of 9 1/2 total. This would translate to about 198 to 200 minutes of runtime, with the theatrical release only running 177 minutes. So there's at least 20 minutes of additional footage there. At the very least, it could be the final theatrical release with the Entre'Act and Intermission that were nixed at the last minute in order to fit in more screenings.
Of course, I could be completely off. Strange things happen when trying to translate film reels to actual run times, as there are dozens of variables that could go into effect. But basically as far as I know almost all of the theatrical prints run 9 reels long, so that extra half a reel is an anomaly.
Nobody will try to recolor and improve the "Santino Jr" B&W sequence from Hal9000's Godfather II edit ?
ReplyDeleteI made some tests, it could be awesome if some skilled people try to do so :
http://imgur.com/a/0atII
^^ Where the hell is that footage from?
ReplyDeleteCheck here for the B&W low resolution part : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-NJZ9PTJWU
ReplyDeleteThis scene is missing from so most complete fanedit(by Hal9000)version so far : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaH_TbweTp4
ReplyDeleteWill you take it back ?
I made some progress on Santino Jr Scene.
ReplyDeleteCharacters have been temporary removed to make a clean background.
See here :
http://imgur.com/a/D5vOt
(source B&W source : youtu.be/f-NJZ9PTJWU?t=138)
In so very, very many ways, The Godfather (especially Part 1) is arguably the most powerful movie ever produced.
ReplyDeleteThe numerous sublime social engineering messages it implanted in the minds of viewers in the 1970's is subconciously expressed in the black back ground, lettering style and marionette string image of the movie logo itself.
Alyinsky-ite rationale of the crime families is embedded throughout. Kay exalts her choice to have an abotion. Catholicism is linked to the most evil of hypocrisy as the baptism scene alternates from hit men scenes and the baptism itself.
In short, whether Puzo intended it or not, the movie itself became a powerful medium for advancing the newly enforced social norms of the 1970's.
Regardless of all that- what has always irked me far more than all this is some confusion about the events and dialogues that take place. While the lack of sensible plausibility is a mainstay in Hollywood, the book's story line too has confusing aspects.
Foremost among them takes place in the Sollozzo meeting scene.
Sonny merely reiterates what Sollozzo himself has stated- that "the Tattaglia's will gaurantee security."
After the meeting, Don Corleone concludes his reprimand of Sonny with the words: "Don't ever tell anyone outside of the family what you're thinking ever again."
YET- that is EXACTLY what the Don himself does with Sollozzo earlier in the scene!
"...but...I must say no to you, and I'll give you my reasons why."
Then he rattles off his litany of thoughts like a lonely drunkard. Makes no sense.
Can anyone explain this to me? Why was what Sonny did so terrible while what the Don himself did ignored? It almost seems as though his imposing character simply negates the huge blunder he made in dealing with Sollozzo.
Thoughts?
Vito, being the Don, is allowed to negotiate with Sollozzo, so telling him why he refused to take part in his venture seems perfectly reasonable. But Sonny has no real say in the business (yet), and being hasty, cuts in and asks whether Tattaglia will guarantee security, as if that isn't the case being the only deal-breaker.
DeleteThat is what makes Sollozzo think that while he can't do business with Vito, he might convince Sonny to go along with him on that enterprise if he becomes the new Don. If Sonny hadn't interrupted Vito, Sollozzo would never think that killing Vito might be beneficial to him, and we would basically have no film.
But to give a more direct answer, Vito was the boss, so he's allowed to talk, and Sonny didn't know his place, so he got told off.
I agree with the above explanation. Also, it wasn't as clear in the movie as it was in the book, but Sonny was in the middle of apprenticing under the Don. His orders from his father were to "pay attention, don't speak unless it's directly to me while we're alone or with Tom." There's a scene in our version that was cut out of most versions, where Sonny is supposed to be watching Vito conduct affairs with the Mortician, but Sonny is too consumed with staring at the window watching the girls. Vito snaps, "are you paying attention?" Sonny has a 'who, me?' look on his face.
DeleteVito knows that Sonny is too hot, and too worried about screwing women to ever be a serious Don. That's why he says that he thinks Sonny's soft in the head from all the "comedy he's playing with that young girl" meaning Lucy Mancini.
His reprimand had more to do with Sonny not knowing his place than speaking his mind. His point was that Sonny should have shut up and listened instead of tossing ideas around, which as we see, gave Sollozzo the impetus to attempt the assassination. What Sollozzo didn't know, however, was that Sonny was so "hot-headed" that instead of renegotiating the deal, he'd go an a killing spree in retaliation. Hence Sollozzo picking up Tom Hagen and telling him that he hopes he's not as hot-headed as Sonny, because indeed, you can't talk business with him.
I meant Michael and not Tom Hagen ^^^
DeleteFinally makes sense to me- so thank you for the reply.
ReplyDeleteHowever, when Sollozzo meets Michael, he tells him: "I hope you're not a hot-head like your brother Sonny. You can't talk business with him!"
So based on what appears to have been their only meeting, of you insight is true, then why would Sollozzo have told that to Michael?
Because Sonny didn't take the deal, and refused to do business with Sollozzo. He saw the attempt at his father's life as personal, while Sollozzo only saw it as a removal of an obstacle to making the deal happen.
DeleteThat's also why Luca is killed, because Sollozzo knew that he would definitely see it as personal, but Sollozzo still believed that Sonny liked his offer enough to forget that, as he tells Tom Hagen when he picks him up. Sonny, obviously, didn't agree, and between the first meeting with Vito and the meeting with Michael, Sonny engages in open warfare against the Tattaglia family, including assassinating Bruno.
That is why Sollozzo tells Michael that he can't do business with Sonny, as he takes things to heart. It's important to understand that Sollozzo is a sociopath who sees murder as merely a means to an end, and that he only kills when it benefits him, with no emotion involved. He doesn't understand why Sonny would be so upset, and, in his opinion, act irrationally, as his deal would have benefited both of them.